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Comentado por Sebas

Many people are turned off by the damage shown for this skill because they do not realize this skill's strength. No, this is not just a "weak eviscerate with more requirements"...this skill does NATURE damage, which means it is unaffected by armor, which reduces the armor of pretty much all of a rogue's other attacks. Nature resistance may be a problem, though...

Comentado por Xaoc

EDIT: Read the formula incorrectly.

Does anyone know a little bit more info about this? With an arbitrary AP (say 1000) and 5 applications, the formula spits out 870 dmg. 870 points of (usually) unmitigated dmg seems a little meh, even against a highly armored target. Being that the dmg is Nature, but the ability is Physical, does it crit often like Pysical spells? Or does it have low crit like Magic spells.

Comentado por Tigraine

Did it also appear to you that the animation isn't showing up sometimes?
I still have to figure out why, but sometimes the animation is missing (too big mobs maybe?)

Comentado por 12996

So far this skill sucks in my opinion. The damage over time from my deadly poisons + an Eviscerate is more then an envenom. I can see it being usefull for a paladin using BOP or something to that effect, but otherwise, gg blizzard on F'ing over rogues with BC skills. Cloak of Shadows is our only skill worth mentioning, since the change of Anesthetic poison. =(

Comentado por darkarsenic

The thing about envenom is getting the right amount of charges for the right amount of combo points. You might not be able to get those 5 charges within 12 seconds. it's much too situational, and using shiv with deadly poison is a waste, instant poison will do comparable damage, if not more, with greater control of the fight. a true PvPer will use wounding MH and crippling OH at 70 anyways. Wounding gives you anti-healer capabilities and damage, and crippling is for everything else. rupture or expose armor would be a better use of combo points IMO.

Comentado por Paps

Envenom spec: https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/talent=i0eboExoVdVoZEr0c0h

This is what I would use if I were trying to max out poison damage, but I haven't tried it yet. Any criticisms on this? Please note that this is pretty much a pure PvE spec.

Comentado por Banatu

I've been told something, rather consistently, by raiding rogues that Envenom beats the hell out of Eviscerate, even in pvp. With Vile Poisons, 1200 AP:

It's doing 1080 nature damage. 2k crits. People are getting 2k Cold Blood envenom crits in instances no sweat, with the rank one. With rank two, and 1400 AP, you'll be critting for 2.6k damage. Unmigitated.

Same situation, coldbooded eviscerate, dame mobs.. the crit's for around 1k. There miiight be an advantage to this, even if situational. Raiding you have 2x deadly up anyways, so what better way to use up deadly poison charges on a dying mob than 2.6k damage? =)

Comentado por Nifty01

Something I have noticed that I would like to warn to other rogues. If you have 5cp, it will only do damage based on the number of poison doses on the target but will still consume all combo points. However, it will only consume doses equivalent to the number of combo points, that is to say if you had 2cp, but 5 doses, you would do 2 doses worth of Envenom damage, and retain 3 doses on the target.

Comentado por 34089

I accidentally posted here instead of as a reply, and now I have to say something so WoWHead will give me my computer back.

Comentado por 73623

Im a sword combat rogue, and im using Envenom as finishing move, i got 5/5 vile poisons, and with the sword spec, every extra attack is another poison apply, so i dont have problems with that.My usual envenom crits are 3500-3600, and my highest were 4500-4600 which is insane... I havent tested this with an enh shammy in the raid ( Stormstrike ) but i hope to do it soon and find out whether it benefits from it.. 20% more dmg will be ,,,, :| ... The only problem is that some bosses are immune to poisons, but 2-3 bosses among 50 is nothing ;) This is a great skill and the other combat rogues in our raids always ask me "how do u dps like that" :P

Comentado por Fugazi

Raid buffed with 2500 AP and 30% crit (mob with 0 armor!):
Rupture = 1600 / 25 = 64 DPE (damage per energy)
Rupture + Mangle = 2080 / 25 = 83.2 DPE
Eviscerate = 1846 / 35 = 52.74 DPE
Eviscerate (talented) = 2250 / 35 = 64.28 DPE
Eviscerate (talented) + 2 set T5 bonus = 2567 / 35 = 73.34 DPE
Eviscerate + 2 set T5 bonus = 2106 / 35 = 60.17 DPE
Envenom = 1657 / 35 = 47.34 DPE
Envenom (talented) = 1989 / 35 = 56.83 DPE

Seems not that bad as Eviscerate damage will be lowered by armor (20%+ usually) but because it eats your poisons (lost dps) it is quite useless skill unless for finishing bosses on 1%.

Comentado por 94813

I thought I would contribute that a lot of people are missing an important aspect of why Envenom is useful, and that is the one thing most of us who strictly use Deadly Poison fear most; wasted charges. What I mean is, say you miraculously stacked 5 charges on your target well before it's going to die. Well damn, now all your poison procs are going to waste (similar to getting 5 combo points... you're eager to use them immediately so you can start stacking a new bunch of them, correct?). But with Envenom, you can lop a few charges off and deal some hefty instant damage (putting those charges to good use!), then stack your charges back up again, which essentially prevents wasted Deadly Poison procs. For people who liberally apply Dead Poison as much as I do, it gives a nice little burst of damage periodically, one that Eviscerate just cannot do (even against casters).

Comentado por Mekc

imho the best sword PvE build is an Envenom build 20/41.
https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/talent=f0ebovZMIVb0VzxMGkt

With my tier5 gear, in raid it crits for 4800-5100 (2000-2500 non-crits)

So Envenom>Rupture>Eviscerate

Comentado por 10128

It has been mentioned that 2.4 might take away the poison consumption from Envenom, making it a very good technique to use.

Comentado por 113878

I cant really decide what is better...I have gone crazy by calculating dps etc testing specs and all that stuff...I also hear and see many different opinions about what is better in raids...Can any1 say what is the best spec and what is better in dps to use in raids with some proof plx? Basicly i play the common 19/42/0 swords with 2 @ resist stun & fear effects which is quite good in some fights (aka archimonde where the main goal is to avoid the fire when u getting feared)Anyways i play only with eviscerate as a finishing move (since i have the bonus from T5) shiv to refresh or add deadly poison stacks and ss ofc...I have to try ss shiv and envenom or maybe rupture when malice is up...I am confused...bah any suggestions? :P

Comentado por 141113

Youre in T5 and you think Envenom is better than Rupture?

How much did that account cost?

And good job, your amazing talent build that you linked is without doubt the most common raiding spec in the game. Its the best spec, ill give you that much.

We all know envenom hits hard - DUH. The fact thats being pointed out is that you are losing approximately 45 DPS until you can fully build up your DP stack again, making it inferior to Rupture and even Eviscerate.

Bout the only thing Envenom is good at killing is trash.

Comentado por NightmareMJ

Affected by Stormstrike and a few other "nature damage" increasing effects as well as wrath of air totem apparently.
With storm strike and mutilate spec this crits for well over 4K damage.
As shadow step envenom spec this will crit for over 5K.

Comentado por faia

Shiv like crazy with deadly+ envenom= nice grinder! (even for dagger!)

did do that vs clefthoofs bulls....fun and very good=)

Comentado por 145993

Yes he has a point, but its not exactly true. As an assasin rogue i have seen amazingly high envenom crits, sure it takes your posions away, but if you are mutilate spec you should be able to put back on those posions in less than 5 sec, not to mention a envenom crit can hit from over 4k, yes i hit for 3k unbuffed, then 4k with buffs and sometimes even higher, i think that covers for the 5 sec without posions. I would like to see a combat rogue hit over 4k in kara/crafted gear. Then the topic of mutilate, its two attacks, meaning 2 chances to apply posions, not to mention you have daggers, meaning swift fast attacks for max posion applying, and also my basic mutilates hit up to 2.5k. Now lets see in one set of combo points thats around 8-9k. And not to forget seal of fate, 3 combo point mutilate for 2.5k.

But its all about what you like, but i always run into people saying Assassination is a waste of a spec, then i ask them, what is you highest crit :].

Comentado por Chace

Using Envenom as a filler between SnD and Rupture is quite viable for raiding Mutilate rogues. Seeing as how the combo point generation is very high with Mutilate.

Comentado por 164782

As I've understood it for PvE,
Prio nr. 1. Always keep S&D up
Prio nr. 2. Keep Rapture up
And for the combo points you got left you use them on envenom.

Comentado por thizzard

Heres an idea of how powerful this is even at level 62.
5 Combo points, 5 doses, cold blood = 2400+
The deadly poison doses are the only frustrating part. I've gotten all 5 in 5 attacks, and havn't gotten any on the opponent I was fighting.
Don't know if it helps, but I was wielding daggers at the time.

Comentado por Allakhazam

I'd be more excited if they hadn't nerfed this :S It used to do a decent ammount of damage but now its purely for burning off poison. Come to think of it whats a gouge rogue doing with deadly poison on anyways?

Comentado por Allakhazam

AP?

This scales with attack power?

Comentado por Allakhazam

It didn't seem to in beta, so unless they changed it:( It didnt do much damage would rather use evis then this.

Comentado por Allakhazam

this ability is good for doing high dmg for droods, warriors, and bosses.
stack up deadly, while the enemy is stunned, then cold blood, and envenom. envenom crits bosses for 2.8k, while eviscerate does more less dmg for them.
correct me if im wrong

Comentado por Allakhazam

Don't you people understand the point of this? It's not for damage really it's to remove your DoT poison so you can effectively use gouge, mostly this is for Assassination rogues. Aslo good so you can use blind if needed.

Comentado por Thottbot

This move is going to be real sick, my only question is if it is effected by poison talents. It is the best alternative to fighting a warrior. Open with cheap shot, shiv shiv shiv (maybe crit) with seal of fate, and envenom, extra 15% would be nice on that and completely ignores armor. Ever try and evis a tier 3 war, granted tier 3 is obselete but giving an example. This skill has alot of potential.

Comentado por Thottbot

I would have to agree with the above post, I gues s now we have the option of either choosing this or rapture this if u want a quick kill, or rapture if this move isn't sificiant enough to finish off the warrior...

Comentado por Thottbot

I find that against most targets, envenom deals very similar damage to evis, due to the target's armor, and since you don't always have time to let rupture run its course, envenom becomes a useful alternative. I use hemorrhage and usually have no trouble getting 5 doses on the target by the time I get 5 combo points. I suppose once you have shiv, you could continue to use instant poison on your main hand and use shiv to generate your combo points and apply deadly poison, then use envenom, as that would mean even more poison damage actually gets applied.

The real question is whether or not the poison talents up the damage on or lower resistances against envenom, then it will be very useful against high armor targets.

Comentado por Thottbot

Those who say that this move sucks, clearly hasent tried it out yet :D On my Rogue, I maks crit w/ Eviscerate for 1600. That is MAXIMUM. With Envenom I crit for 1800 all the time :D

L63, 850 Ap, Honored Hold -honored Swords

Comentado por Thottbot

Blizz are clearly making this go hand in hand with Shiv...Crippling on main and Deadly on off, instant applications of deadly Poison with shiv then Envenom after will help with Warr fights cos' it ignores armor.

But a big downside is that Deadly Poison breaks gouge, which is a big must to get distance between yourself and a target and build up energy.

I think this is mainly for Stunlock rogues with 20% extra envenom damage (Vile Poisons). Being Shadowstep and not having Vile Poisons im not so sure the extra damage (and so far i havent seen much extra damage over evis, regardless of armor) will be worth sacrificing Gouge and 4 secs worth of distance / energy.

Comentado por Thottbot

THis would be "better" agains a warrior

but rupture kiting is much funner...

Comentado por Thottbot

A different ability (such as evisc. or rupture) doesn't even have to do more damage if you still have some fighting left to do, as you can pop one of those and still leave the Deadly Poisons on the target.

Edit - yeah, that's a good point about getting rid of the DOTs in order to blind/gouge.

Comentado por Thottbot

It's usefull than u're in deep *!@#, and than u need to stop doting deadly poison to use blind. ^^

Comentado por Thottbot

I really need to get my rogue up to try this shouldn't take me too long but if anyone has used this curious how it works.

It sounds like it works off doses of poison and if so I could see someone eviserating getting the free combo point from any number of skills and then using this with whatever charges are availible for some extra burst damage when you have them close on life. Now if the damage on this scales per combo point that would make it less viable in some cases but if it doesnt it would be a waste to use this with more than one combo point.

I also think this is great like listed above for dropping poison so you can blind or even gouge if you need a breather.

Comentado por Thottbot

so ..there i was..fighting a gay ally...ive got deadly poison on him 2 times..im not gonna win this fight ..i was fighting a mob when he attacked me so i was at half health and i have 2 minutes left on my vanish and 6 minutes left on prep.. oh noes i cant gouge him cuz he's dotted..all i really wanna do here is run and fight another day..so i hit envenom..poof the dots are gone...now i can gouge or blind..and run away and lick my wounds..heal up and hunt his ass.couldent do that before..so all you simple minded kids need to learn to use more than 4 buttons kthnx

Comentado por Thottbot

this attack is only good on things that have tons of armor. thats all

Comentado por Thottbot

finnaly blizzard made some active actions with poisons

Comentado por Thottbot

forgot to mention...
the school is nature.
hoping. (crosses fingers)

Comentado por Thottbot

at first i was like sweet.. but then i saw it cost combo points to so like....hmm... i think it may be for people who like deadly poison,pop off envenom whenever you want to gouge,so you still get damage out of your poisons,but even then evisc is better in some cases, as said before its situational, i might stick with rupture but forever reason if im using deadlys and feel like gouging ill know what to do.

Comentado por Thottbot

I'd have to say Envenom is quite a useful skill, more more powerful than Eviscerate. With 5 stacks of Deadly, I crit for 2700 dmg while my Eviscerate only crits for 1800. Let me know if i'm wrong, but 900 dmg is a substantial amount. Even without the crit, there is still a 300 - 400 dmg difference. Duh?

Comentado por Thottbot

Best used for assasination specced rogues, especially if you have Mutilate (you may be using that ability to get your 5 combo points while the target is Deadly poisoned leading to increased damage).

So far, I don't think many mentioned Mutilate in conjuction with this skill. Of course, won't be useful against poison immune enemies.

Comentado por Thottbot

love this ability. here are some answers to some of your questions.

Without being talented and ignoring armour damage reduction, eviscerate will ever-so-slightly out damage envenom (by a flat 85 damage i think).

improved evis and aggression will increase eviscerate damage by 15% and 6% respecively, whereas vile poisons will increase envenom damage by 20%. So generally speaking, if your going to spec deep in assassination, envenom is better, still without taking armor into account. people can still get similar evis crits on clothies which is why some of you may be sceptical, but the armor negation is ftw.

it can crit based on melee crit%, and crits for the full double damage, not like spells that only get 1 and a half damage.

it does not benifit from +spell damage.

I am almost certain (confirmation needed) that this penetrates Blessing of Protection. i was surprised when i crit and killed a paladin moments after he bubbled (it kind of surprised me more than him i think lol)

i recomend getting camo with this for pvp because it gives plenty of time to run, restealth and re-open before the deadly poison wears off

this is affected by, and consumes stormstrike debuffs. i have managed to get 3 5point envenom crits of 3526 in arcatraz when grouped with an enhance sham. my ap unbuffed is about 1200

Comentado por Thottbot

stromstrike does stack with it if i am lucky i can get of a 4.4k with somtrstrike btw i had improv posion for this spell and atp does not up the dmg i am sure of that but not 100 percent becuase i had a buff of 1.7k atp and did the same 4.4k and unbuff i have 1.3k muti spec

Comentado por Thottbot

Ok i have my new lvl 62 rogue (assassination) he just got envenom and ITS WORTH IT! when i used eviscerate i hit a 1000 but when i got him with envenom i got over that. i used envenom on a weaker opponent that had a great deal less armor, and envenom did the same. It depends on who,what your fighting envenom for the high armored and eviscerate for the weak

Comentado por Thottbot

I think poison talents stack my envenom dose 890 dmg with 5 points and i am assa. spec unless its my ap. (1140)

Comentado por Thottbot

I wonder but how are you supposed to tell in instances which enemies are heavily armored and whether eviscerate should be used or envenom. Or should a rogue just eviscerate the whole time no matter what so the poison stays and if the elite is well armored u dont crit too high and pull aggro?

Comentado por Thottbot

Ok for instances you should use envenom unless you have a warrior that stacks sunder armor.... with my lvl 70 im always using eviscerate when we have a war stacking it.... without the warrior tanking or your just soloing id recomend this very highly.... i tested to see if it was worth it by using evisc and envenom on a same lvl same type of mob... envenom hit higher....

Although it does take 1 dose and 1 combo point/"charge" in the next attack you'll probably have poisons and combo points AGAIN

Also i might add.... this does get damage bonus when stormstrike is on from a shammy i checked my combat log it said.... NATURE DAMAGE! and it boosted it from 2900-4400 with it fully stacked and those both were crits and both were on bosses.

also this is barely but more effective against leather warers also.... say ur fighting a rogue and you get cold blood and envenom BAM 3k and knowing most rogues by the time you get those.... THEY'RE DEAD!

as for lvl 70 assass NE rogue on perenolde i say this is worth it....

WARRIORS BEWARE.....
also pallys feral druids hunters shammys and anything else.....
BEWARE

Comentado por Thottbot

After getting the 2piece setbonus tier 5 I specced to mutilate / poison build to try it for a while.
The first raid I did I critted for 5590, so with some luck, timing it right with the good progbuffs I think 6k with my current gear should be possible.

http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report=xe6hdpsiz1cwi&ab;=207

Imo if you have a high critrate and good critbuffing classes in your raid and enough plus hit (which goes for every specc) this build is pretty usefull in PvE and it can stay near combatrogues in damage.

Comentado por Thottbot

what the hell is coruge?

Comentado por Thottbot

love the sound when you use this attack xD

Comentado por Thottbot

Just one more thing... Vile poisons give 20% bonus damage.. imp evisc gives +15% so yeah..

Links

Envenenar

Envenenar

35 de Energia	Alcance corpo a corpo

Instantâneo

Golpe final que inocula as doses de seu Veneno Mortal no alvo para causar dano de Veneno instantâneo. Uma dose é inoculada para cada ponto de combo:
1 dose: (144 * 1 + Attack power * 0.03) de dano
2 doses: (144 * 2 + Attack power * 0.06) de dano
3 doses: (144 * 3 + Attack power * 0.09) de dano
4 doses: (144 * 4 + Attack power * 0.12) de dano
5 doses: (144 * 5 + Attack power * 0.15) de dano

Detalhes do Feitiço

Duração

n/d

Escola

Natureza

Mecânica

n/d

Tipo de dissipação

Veneno

Categoria GCD

Normal

Custo

35 de Energia

Alcance

5 metros (Combat)

Tempo de lançamento

Instantâneo

Recarga

n/d

GCD

1 segundo

Efeito nº1

School Damage (Natureza)
Valor:144
Multiplicador de JvJ: 1

Efeito nº2

Dummy
Valor:144
Multiplicador de JvJ: 1
Script do lado do servidor

Bandeiras

[Is Ability]
Não pode ser usado quando Transformado
[Do Not Sheath]
[Initiates Combat (Enabled Auto-Attack)]
Requer pontos de Combo no Alvo
Requer uma arma na mão principal
[No Cast Log]
[No Helpful Threat]

Envenenar

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Detalhes do Feitiço

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